Nex vs. Riven, Pt. I: Who is Riven? *UPDATE*
After I read the comment section of WinxClubEnglish’s Aisha and Nex love story video, I knew it was time for a new “Nex vs. Riven” post. I guess even though Riven returned in Winx season eight, this weak comparison hasn’t died yet. Regardless, I planned to write another post about it a while ago.
Turns out I had a lot more to say this time, so I divided it into three parts:
- Pt. I: Who is Riven? Riven’s personality, motivations, etc.
- Pt. II: Who is Nex? Nex’s personality, motivations, etc.
- Pt. III: Debunking the “Proof” That They’re Same: Both guys are sexist? Nope.
(UPDATE: As part of a series about Aisha/Roy vs Aisha/Nex, I wrote a post comparing Nex and Riven’s Winx Club debuts. A Winx fan on YouTube claimed Rainbow introduced these guys the same way. Did they? Read to find out.)
The Winx fandom insists that Nex is “like Riven”, “a copy of Riven”, or a “Riven rip-off”. They compare everything Nex says or does to something Riven has said or done. But if it’s something positive, they spin it as a negative in Nex’s case.
For example, on the love story video, someone commented that “Nex’s character improved a great bit in [Winx season eight]”. Another fan replied, “So he’s basically a bad copy of Riven.”
Even becoming a better man makes him too much like Riven? Is Riven the only guy allowed to show character growth? ?
Of course, if Nex never changed, the fandom would hate him just as much (maybe more) and still call him a Riven clone. Pardon my French, but that’s the definition of “damned if you do, damned if you don’t”.
Context is Key
Why is Nex trapped in this lose-lose situation? I think the Winx fandom forgot Riven’s character type, his personality, and the core of his story. Instead, they’ve reduced him to a list of traits: arrogant, rude, aggressive, competitive, jealous, mean…but redeemable.
The “like Riven/Riven rip-off” label is what happens when you take his traits out of context. Without it, any character can be like him. You know who else has been accused of acting like Riven? Sky, Roy, Flora, and Helia. That’s right: Flora and Helia, thanks to their occasional aggression and rudeness in Winx season seven.
“But Nex has the same hairstyle as Riven, too!”
Does he really? ? I’ll get to that in my third post.
First, let’s use our Stones of Memories to travel back in time to Winx seasons one and two. If the “like Riven/Riven rip-off” label takes Riven’s traits out of context, the solution is to bring the context back in.
Who is Riven?
Here’s his character description from the official Winx Club website (circa. 2007):
Remember that list of traits the Winx fandom uses to claim a character is “acting like Riven”? How many of those traits are mentioned here? Not many. Maybe one or two at most.
Does that mean he doesn’t have them? No, it doesn’t. But the context tells us why he has them and how they relate to his story.
The description says Riven is:
If we add a few of these together, we start to understand why Riven acts the way he does.
For example, a wary person doesn’t trust others easily, and a surly person is grouchy all the time. Why would Riven be grouchy and suspicious of others? Well, if he’s also a loner, he’s not happy around other people because…he prefers to be alone.
But his job as a Specialist forces him into a squad, so he’s out of his comfort zone every day. That’s a lot of stress. I’d be mean and aggressive, too!
Not a Ladies’ Man
The description also says he doesn’t trust girls because he hates his mother for abandoning him. By the way, have you realized Rainbow has never mentioned his backstory in the cartoon? Not even once, in eight seasons?
For the sake of argument, we’ll say it’s canon anyway. It was on his official profile, after all.
That means Riven is canonically a misogynist. Yet it didn’t stop him from becoming one of the most popular characters in Winx Club. Figures.
Anyway, no wonder he and Musa have a toxic, on-again-off-again relationship. His jealousy (a lack of trust) has been one of the biggest obstacles between them. Combine that with his wary, surly loner tendencies, and it’s clear why it’s hard for him to be supportive and emotionally available.
Yet the Winx fandom always sides with him and wants them to stay together, no matter how stressed and miserable she feels. “Keep dating the misogynist, Musa. He’ll become a better person eventually.” (I love double standards.)
Also, consider this if you haven’t before. If Riven’s mother abandoned him when he was young, he’s never had a mother figure — i.e., a prominent woman in his life who loves him. What if he’s substituting Musa for that role? Is that why he lashes out at her (anger meant for his mother), but panics whenever she threatens to leave him (triggering the trauma of being unwanted)?
Only when Musa has had it with his behavior does he desperately try to keep her or win her back. But since he still doesn’t trust girls, he doesn’t know how to keep her! So the cycle repeats itself.
To be honest, I understand why the fandom wants this relationship to work. I believe that people, in fiction and in real life, can change. Sometimes, it just takes one person who believes in you and is willing to give you a chance.
The problem is Musa has given Riven lots of chances, and she’s got the emotional scars to prove it. When should enough be enough?
Finally, why is Riven competitive with Sky more than anyone else? I think it’s because Sky has everything he wants and is everything he’s not. Sky is loved by his kingdom, his teachers, his father and mother, and his girlfriend. He’s rich (because he’s a prince), and he’s the leader of a top-notch Specialist squad.
I think Riven sees him as an impossible goal for him to beat. If he can surpass Mr. Cliché Prince Charming, he’ll gain all his desires and feel like a hero to himself. Their fencing duel in “The Anthem” (Winx season 6, episode 23) highlights this. After Riven loses, he complains that he’ll “always be runner-up” to Sky.
A Heart of Stone or a Heart of Darkness?
In “Friends in Need” (Winx season 1, episode 7), Darcy finds Riven unconscious in a hallway at Alfea. She senses “a very strong negative force” emanating from him.
“He’s on a level with the Prince of Darkness.”
Pause for a moment. I don’t remember a “Prince of Darkness” in Winx Club, so Darcy must be talking about the guy people in real life call by that name: the Devil.
Riven is as dark as the Devil. That’s what her line means.
How can the Winx fandom toss around the label “like Riven” if Riven is nearly demonic? Nex may be annoying sometimes, but he’s not evil and has never been drawn to the powers of darkness.
In Winx Club (and most stories), darkness is tied to negative emotions: sadness, anger, hatred, betrayal, jealousy, etc. Riven has wrestled with these feelings every season, especially season one, which makes him vulnerable to manipulation. That’s why villains like using him for their evil schemes. Darcy convinces him to betray his friends and help the Trix. (No, she doesn’t brainwash him. That was just in the 4Kids dub.)
Think about the meaning of his name, too. “Riven” is the past participle of the verb “rive”, which means “to tear apart”, “to break (the heart)”, or “(of the heart) to be broken”. That’s him in a nutshell. He creates rifts between himself and others, and he breaks people’s hearts (especially Musa’s) because his own heart is in pieces.
Eventually, Riven returns to the group, but he still struggles with anger, hatred, and a lack of trust. He’s still a loner, too, so being on a team is still hard for him. And we know what happens in season six. Musa breaks up with him (for the second time) in “The Anthem” (episode 23), and he leaves Sky’s squad forever…
…until season eight.
The Specialists welcome Riven back immediately and claim he’s finally changed. Has he really? We’ll see.
TL;DR
- The “like Riven/Riven rip-off” label reduces Riven to a list of traits. It also takes them out of the context of his character type, his personality, and the core of his story.
- In his official character description from seasons two and three, Rainbow described Riven as “wary” (having a hard time trusting people), “surly” (grouchy), and “a loner”. He also hates his mother for abandoning him, so he especially doesn’t trust girls. That explains why he’s mean and aggressive and why he and Musa don’t get along.
- In “Friends in Need” (Winx season 1, episode 7), Darcy says Riven is “on a level with the Prince of Darkness” (a.k.a., the Devil). Darkness is tied to negative emotions like sadness and hatred, which Riven wrestles with most than any other character. This makes him the most vulnerable to becoming evil.
- “Riven” is a form of the word “rive”, which means “to tear apart”, “to break (the heart)”, or “(of the heart) to be broken”. Riven is a guy who creates rifts between himself and others and breaks people’s hearts (especially Musa’s) because his own heart is in pieces.
- Riven may have finally changed, but it took him eight seasons to do so.
Next, we’ll talk about…Nex. Here’s a taste.
Why hasn’t he been tempted by the powers of darkness like Riven has? Is it because he’s a “less-developed, badly-written Riven”, as the fan who also called him “a bad copy” put it? Of course not. (Also, if you have to add that many qualifiers, the argument is dead.)
It’s because Nex is too positive. Remember: darkness comes from negative emotions, but he doesn’t give into his as easily as Riven does. That’s because Nex has a different personality. What is it, and what are his motivation and character type? Stay tuned.
Can I just say that I absolutely LOVE it when you do pseudo-psychological character analyses like this? You always make me look at characters In new ways I hadn’t before. Slay, queen.
As for Riven,,,I guess I understand where he’s coming from, but he handles everything in the worst way possible. He really needs a psychiatrist, or someone else who can help him learn to process his issues. And yes, he is nothing like Nex. And I love the double standard that Riven is a good character, but as soon as his negative characteristics are applied to another character, it means that they’re bad. What the heck.
Thank you! ?
Yeah, I can’t stand it, either. Everything is rigged for Riven and against Nex. I think the Aisha ship wars are to blame. Musa’s only significant love interest is Riven. Yes, she’s had others (more than Aisha has had), but they’ve been minor characters. So most fans treat Riven like he’s her only option, so they’re more patient with him.
But Aisha has had two boyfriends and one guy who seemingly almost became her boyfriend. In the fandom’s minds, she’s got other options besides Nex, so they’re not willing to wait on his character growth. Just toss him away and take Roy. Or toss them both away and resurrect Nabu.
If Musa had had other major love interests, the fandom would probably treat Riven like an option instead. And if Nabu and Roy hadn’t existed, the fandom would probably have supported Aisha and Nex from the start.
I loved this analyses, and this shows that Riven has all the traits of a typical narcissist. Especially when you mentioned Riven projects his own shattered heart onto others, which is common for a narcissist.
Well this is a new perspective on Riven. He’s still a jerk though, a calmer jerk now, but i still side with Musa about him having a lot of work that needs to be done.
Also with Musa’s love interests? Jared gets treated like the bad guy a lot. Just because he wanted to talk to Musa and had one photo…they call him the stalker…even though he really wasn’t. He was just a kind person who actually treated Musa properly and waited. Hrm…maybe Jared helped Riven mellow out a bit?
I agree that Jared is better than Riven, but he didn’t just have one picture of Musa – he had an entire wall covered with photos of her. So yeah, he’s a bit creepy.
@Nerdyprincessmollz Those photos were Riven’s. Not his, he got the picture from Riven.
That can be argued in this scenario, But I’m just saying they don’t bring across the same vibe because Nabu’s reasoning and intentions are understandable (even if you don’t necessarily agree with it) and it wasn’t a random thing. Nabu’s coming was hinted at before. He had a proper follow-up, and eventually became one of the supporting characters. Jared is different because our first introduction to him is a wall full of Musa, which probably wasn’t a good idea. Jared turned out to be alright, but he doesn’t have enough screentime to replace the creepy vibe with fondness.
Both. The fanbase assumed that the photos were Jared’s, but did you ever pay attention to the scene right after it? It’s Riven & Helia’s room, it’s just that 4kids stated the obvious when Jared gets the photo, all the Cinelumè dub (but we should probably
call it the Arthur dub, more people pick up on that than they do on the studio when talking about this dub) did was just show Helia and Riven after Jared left. Then remember something Jared said about that scenario? It was one of Stella’s matchmaker attempts. She and Bloom had a conversation about Stella needing to let things be (because technically at that point no couple was official. They were all just friends in season 1 until the finale because of Sky, Brandon and Riven’s shenanigans…and between Bloom and Stella, let’s just say they all got burns as in third degree) and then Stella said Bloom couldn’t dis her over that otherwise Bloom wouldn’t have been with Sky. Sounds like every romantic relationship that came about because of Stella is just asking for trouble. Stella really needs to just leave the matchmaking to Amore doesn’t she? I mean look at all the trouble she’s caused with that. Could Bloom’s best friend really be her own worst villain?
I get you.
Thanks for entertaining the conversation.
But didn’t Aisha also decide that she was done with men because of the engagement? Isn’t that also silly?
Yes, she did. All men…including her father.
I’m not saying people don’t say or do dumb things out of anger, but that doesn’t make what Nabu did okay.
Either way, the arranged marriage subplot and how Rainbow resolved it were misguided to begin with. Nabu said he wanted to decide his life for himself. But by agreeing to marry Aisha, he did the opposite: letting his parents shape his life for him. If he really cared about freedom, he would have refused to marry her.
As for Aisha, she had even less freedom than Nabu did. Her career and future home were decided when she was born, and she had strong convictions about choosing her own guy. Then what happened? She met Nabu and said, “Oh, okay. Never mind. I’ll marry him.”
Thus, she gave up the last of her personal choices. And for what? Because they had a lot in common? That’s great, but is it really what either of them needed?
If you ask me, Rainbow forced Aisha into a relationship with Nabu (who was basically a genderbent Aisha) just because she didn’t have a boyfriend yet at what could have been the end of the series. But the writers didn’t think the details through.
I think the reasoning was more along the lines of “I wanna see who this bitch that’s gonna ruin my life is”. Now, I guess he could have just as easily approached her in the street or something (tho he did that later on and that didn’t go well), but initially, he’d already decided to dislike her. He likely just wanted to see how trashy she was, not befriend her. Plus, the Winx were pretty damn busy when he first stepped on the scene (Faragonda got fused with the tree, they went to Linphea to get the water that reverses time, Tecna got sucked into the Omega dimension and they thought she died, the Trix and Valtor were still bitching, etc.)
I’d say it helped with his disillusionment. He was blinded by anger at his parents’ decision and seeking out Aisha showed him that whatever monster he’d created in his head wasn’t there. Once he realized that, he gave himself up and approached her when things settled down for a bit. The first few times he approached, she got pissed. It wasn’t until they got locked in the cell together that they actually talked and started to get to know each other.
Do I agree with the whole stalking thing? No. But I can see where Nabu was coming from.
I agree that Jared was creepy, but how did Nabu’s reasoning make sense? “I need to get to know this girl…so I’ll follow her around without her knowing.” Exactly what did that tell him about her that he couldn’t have learned better from, say, talking to her in person? And he knew what he was doing was wrong. That’s why he kept avoiding her.
Also, what reason did he have to think she was a horrible person? Was that ever explained? If he thought she was horrible just because his parents were forcing him to marry her, that’s not reasonable. That’s silly.
In which version? 4Kids? (I watch Rainbow)
Nabu stalked Aisha with a telescope. What’s your point? If the fandom really has a problem with Jared because he was a stalker, that’s yet another double standard.
But Nabu wasn’t some random guy that popped up for one episode, obsessed over one of the girls, found another girl then disappeared. He was watching Aisha because their parents arranged their marriage without either of their consent and he wanted to see what kind of horrid person she was. When he realized he was wrong to think of her as a bad person, he assisted the Winx from the shadows and gradually revealed himself to her. I don’t think he and Jared are on the same level at all.
So stalking a girl is okay if you have good intentions?
@Admin, it’s just another case of “original love interest=only person a Winx can date” mentality. They seem to ignore anyone that isn’t who the popular ship is as if the popular ship is the end all be all. Even though Jared seemed like a kind person who was willing to take things slow, he still gets flack for Riven’s wall…it’s not like he actually stalked Musa. He’s a journalist. He has better things to do than be a creep.
Yes, I agree. And yeah, I forgot that Jared got the pictures from Riven.
[…] comparisons to Riven have trapped Nex in a cycle of constant criticism and […]
What do you guys think about Riven in Season 8? And Musa’s reaction/behavior towards him?
I think he forces Musa too much to come back.
I agree with the both of you, especially about the “romantic gestures” part. He seems like a guy who just wants to get into Musa’s pants and once he has accomplished that gets back to being the emotionally-abusive chauvinist he has always been. But love is so much more than physical affection, and that is what almost nobody realizes! Riven fails in the emotional part of love, probably because he has had a tough childhood but that doesn’t excuse his behavior. I think it’s time to move on. They can continue being friends (which would add another layer of realism, for not all love stories can end happily), but starting anew? Urgh, no thanks. Even Rainbow seems to get tired of the idea, IF the rumors about Musa dating a girl in the live-action Netflix show are to believed (we will see what truly happens in 2020/2021).
I certainly wouldn’t mind if Musa started living a single life from now on. Asexuality is nothing to be ashamed of, after all. And if she simply cannot find somebody, why try desperately? Jason Queen is married, Orlando is already dead by now since he lived in the Middle-Ages and almost nobody remembers the guy from season 2 who had a crush on Musa. No need to try hooking her up with new guys. Let her stay single, Iginio. Let Riven be just a good ex-boyfriend, Winx fandom. Please, just stop putting her together with him.
I can buy that Riven has changed as a person, but he’s not doing anything different when it comes to Musa. He’s doing exactly what he did after she broke up with him in season four: random, generic romantic gestures. That’s not what she wants from him! She wants him to understand and respect her, and I still don’t think he does.
It also annoys me that the other characters are rooting for Riven. They know this couple’s history. Even if he’s making an effort to show that he’s changed, trying to convince Musa to ignore her emotional scars and take him back again is just cruel.
The Winx fandom is doing the same thing. They’re saying she’s being a jerk to him, and she should take him back. It’s as if her feelings don’t matter.
I’m on Team Musa. While she is being petty at times (like with the Orion situation), I think she’s in the right. Just because Riven claims to have changed doesn’t mean she should welcome him back into her life as if nothing happened. He had his chance.
I hope they don’t get back together, but I’m sure they will.
Exactly. I hated when Riven said “Do not trust that Orion guy!” Hello? Musa can choose for herself whom she’s hanging out with, thank you very much. I really cringed when he said: “ You are setting yourself up for dissapointment. You will see i am right” What kind of narcissitic remark is that? ?
As always, Riven claims to be good guy. But his actions show otherwise. Wow, that sounds familiar don’t you think? ?
He also isn’t clear about anything. Only what Musa wants is clarity. He was out of touch the whole time, and now he pops up again, and expects everything to be ok? Why didn’t Musa hear from him? What got in the way? Where was he all the time.
Also, what did he do in the Omega Dimension. Like you said, the other characters are rooting for Riven. I hate the most how the specialists welcome him back that easily again. Their reason was “He rescued us from a monster”. So very impressive ? I mean, his abusive personality didn’t take away his specialist/warrior side (only the time where he thought it was a competition in Season 6).
The way I saw it, Riven was trying to protect her. But yes, the way he went about it was classic Riven and undermined the argument that he’s changed.
Also, I agree about his supposedly noble rescue. He saved the Specialists. That’s great. How does that prove he’s changed? Like you said, his abusive behavior towards Musa never stopped him from doing his job as a Specialist. They’re mixing issues here.
I’ll say this, though: they’re fine for letting him back into the group. Honestly, they are. Musa doesn’t have to date him just because he’s there. It’s the fact that everyone is trying to push them together again that bothers me.
[…] Riven is Musa’s ex-boyfriend (maybe not anymore). “Riven” is the past participle of “rive”, which means “to tear apart”, “to break [the heart]”, or “[of the heart] to be broken”. That’s his entire character in a nutshell: his supposed backstory, his internal conflict, his tendency to mess up relationships — everything. […]
[…] Winx Club, it’s Riven, Musa’s on-again-off-again boyfriend. Digimon Tamers gives us Beelzebumon (Beelzemon in the […]
[…] Pt. I: Riven […]
Just a random thought here, but what if Musa’s not the girl who can change Riven into the person she thinks he can be? What if it was Bloom who could change Riven from…harsh words used to erroneously describe Nex into a gentler person and Musa was supposed to be the one dating Sky instead because she actually could live with Sky’s personality and not meltdown over it? If anything there’s always been a red vs blue dynamic between Bloom, Sky, Riven and Musa…and it looked as if there were times when Bloom was mending Riven’s riven heart as she was the only girl he actually wasn’t agitated by, but Musa kept reminding Riven why he was riven (they were two reds). On the other hand Sky does this to Bloom by taking advantage of her (the only real weakness besides the water stars and shadowflame she has and also two blues between her and sky) and clearly didn’t heed the “treat her right or you fry” warning he was given, by Riven…maybe if Bloom ever returns that ring she’ll consider Riven…at least he knows not to anger her…and Sky could try dating Musa because red & blue keep each other in check.
I think I see what you mean. While I don’t know if Bloom X Riven would work, she has always been able to stand up to him better than Musa has. She’s also made more of an effort to understand his feelings. Still, Bloom is the type of person who needs a lot of attention, and Riven couldn’t provide that for her.
Musa X Sky? I like the prince and pauperess dynamic, but I can’t imagine them as a couple. They have nothing in common. (Then again, neither do Bloom and Sky.)
I wonder if Bloom needs a lot of attention because she’s neurodivergent. She sometimes acts like a person on the Autism Spectrum (I catch a few signs because I am on the spectrum myself). Maybe she needs someone who could help her with those negative things that those with Autism suffer. Stella’s a good friend for that, but for a love interest…she should have stayed with Andy or maybe dated Jared….even though she tries to help as many as she can…she’s too hotheaded (pun intended) to let someone else help her.
[…] Pt. I: Riven […]
[…] Pt. I: Riven […]
[…] Pt. I: Riven […]
[…] Pt. I: Riven […]
[…] Pt. I: Riven […]
[…] Pt. I: Riven […]
[…] Pt. I: Riven […]
I’ve always hated how the show handled Riven. He’s pretty much the character I like the most because his depths intrigue me but my god, his development is so poorly written. It’s drawn out and more negative traits are added along the way for petty drama. Because of it, I hardly care for the series beyond Season 3 tbh.
There are so many things about Riven and Musa I want to just…rant about. But I’ll have to do that some other time, some other place. For now tho, I’ll say I’m not a fan of how their relationship is written in canon, and I don’t think there’s anything the writers can do at this point to make me care for them. Their personalities clash and neither of them seems to understand how to have a conversation without blowing a fuse. It’s just annoying. I wish they’d just… not dated in the first place.
Also, just a few things:
1. “She senses “a very strong negative force” emanating from him. “He’s on a level with the Prince of Darkness.””
I honestly just thought she meant he has a lot of negative energy constipating him. Not that he’s demonic. I don’t think anything about that bitch is demonic.
2. “Darcy convinces him to betray his friends and help the Trix. (No, she doesn’t brainwash him. That was just in the 4Kids dub.)” I’ve always interpreted her use of magic on him as brainwashing (possibly ’cause I watched the 4Kids version first), but it is possible it was only to form the telepathic bond. But I do wonder if Riven actually saw anyone as his friend before Darcy. I feel like everyone and their mama pretty much accepted him as “that guy” in the friend group but in season 1, Riven seemed to question whether or not he had any friends.
Musa and RIven’s relationship is a classic example of the “good girl, brooding bad boy” trope. The bad boy has a chip on his shoulder against the world, but he has a tragic backstory, so that makes it okay. It’s so common in YA stories, it’s become cliché and a lot of professional writers hate it.
Personally, I wish Rainbow had kept Musa and Riven apart after they broke up in season six. It would have been a nice twist on the normal outcome: the good girl keeps coming back, no matter how poorly the bad boy treats her. I also hate that this trope always favors the bad boy. The girl is made to look like a monster if she does feel sorry for him and give into his desires. Even the Winx fandom sees Musa that way.
[…] Pt. I: Riven […]
[…] Pt. I: Riven […]